Why not allow a quick change rear?

[ZForceRacing01]

These cars run so many different racetracks and use different gears at many of them. Why not go to a quick change rear? The rear end would be a big initials expense but a onetime expense. Then I would figure the gears would be about the same as they are now, but much easier to change and less change for error.

Arguing the intent would be to keep cost down would not be a strong argument. In the short time I have been dealing with these cars I have learned the low cost factor was lost a long time ago. My .02.

[justfreaky]

We have a gear chart for many tracks here on the site. Around $2,000 for the quick change and then you have to buy all the different combinations of gear sets.
Most folks  only run a couple of tracks each season and have gears for them. 

Steve

[canabl]

we went from running legends to modlites in australia and have the latest winters baby grand quickchange. for us once we get all the brackets, brakes, rotors and gears to get it in the car its almost $4000 AU. a legend diff complete is around the $1500AU. yes the ease to swap out gears is 6 bolts and a top up of oil but the cost difference is not worth the benefits IMO.
We building cars now with the legend 10 bolt housing with a clamp on shock and caliper mount and disc brake setup so we can entice lower budget guys that want more of a dirt race car than a legends converted to run dirt.

[tim67]

So my 2 cents...I raced Legends years ago and for the last 10 years Super Lates.  Still have the SLM and will still race it occasionally, but last year bought a Legends to put some fun back into racing.  So I have experience with all types and all associated costs.

This discussion is only productive comparing apples-to-apples.  A race-ready Baby Grand QC rear assembly, including axles and a gear set is in the neighborhood of $2,070, and each additional gear set is $70, so with (1) spare sets of gears you're in for about $2,140.  For Legends, a new double-shear housing, with new axles and a fresh spooled gear is about $1,400.  Add only 1 additional gear set , and you're in for a little over $2,000.  Pretty close to the same.

Add a 3rd set of gears and the total investment in the QC becomes $500 cheaper, and for each (1) additional Legends gear set, you can buy 7 or 8 QS sets.

On straight economics, I pick QC every time.  That doesn't even take into consideration the time and ease of changing gears.  Or ease of storage.  Or yearly maintenance.

Not saying it should happen, but the option would be nice, especially given that Winters has the race-proven parts in their standard catalogue.  Cheers, Tim

[ZForceRacing01]

I'm no expert on the quick change rear. I actually had a quick Change transmission in my Figure 8 car. We would run our heats on the Oval and Mains on the Fig 8. So we swapped every race day.

I knew initial cost would be high but figured the more you traveled and more gears accumulated the more the cost would level out. It also gives you options. Say someone has a suggestion to go up or down a gear, you can borrow a gear from a friend and run it in practice that day. If its wrong have it switched back before the main.

Thanks for the input.

[Legends57x]

Tim,

I agree with most everything you said as the cost of gear sets for the Toyota rear ends seems to be getting more and more expensive every year.  I currently have four spooled gear sets to choose from, so at an average of $500 each, $2000 pays for quick change rear end assembly.  However, we all must keep in mind that the Winters race-proven gears and parts in their standard catalog would only be available thru INEX with their markings for additional cost.  So a $35 gear set turns into a $50 gear set to be INEX legal as they say.   Interesting discussion otherwise...  

[Legends57x]

Would like to add one other positive - Much easer for tech inspector to inspect as compare to removing Toyota center section to look for lightweight spools, etc.

[slack11]

I understand the apples to apples argument, but it would be a huge one time expense for people to switch from what they currently have, to invest in a totally new system. 

  I am just a weekend warrior, probably like most legends guys.  I don't change gears much, run one track, and already own the rearends that I will ever need.  Making a switch wouldn't be worth it.

I understand that the quick change is a better piece, just like the new brakes, the new lighter wheels, etc. They all  make for a better race car.  But it would also add a huge expense to those already in the sport to stay competitive and try to run at the front.  I would love to see things stay the same for a while, with no more needed expenses. 

I can't believe numbers are increasing across the country.  Adding expenses like this to those that already own the equipment needed may force some to  park their cars instead of investing that much more. 

I believe the legends are the best bang for the buck class that I have seen, but things are slowly creeping away from that idea.  I know personally I would have to think very hard at throwing another 2,000 in my car on top of all the other expenses just to get to the track.

[tim67]

No matter what - the price to change any existing rear-end would be steep, probably to the point I wouldn't bother to do it on an existing car.  However on a new car or on a rebuild/replacement basis, the economies start to make sense - especially if you travel at all.  The one thing you most likely wouldn't have to worry about is a huge performance difference.  Weight difference would be negligible.  Plus remember that a QC takes the standard ring-and-pinion gears and adds 2 QC gears and extra bearings, so the mechanical loss is greater.  Even assuming that race-engineered systems will perhaps perform better than OEM parts re-engineered for racing, the performance advantage would be slight to perhaps even a disadvantage.  Ask most stock car guys, from a pure performance perspective they'd mostly prefer a Ford 9" with the right gear set over a QC, but the impracticalities of having enough race-ready 9" rear ends in various gears laying around just doesn't make sense, so performance is compromised for ease with the QC setup.  But if I ever ran just one track, I would 100% stay with the standard rear end.

[justfreaky]

As always, It is a cost issue. Most of us have our budget to work within. If we already have what we need to race why do we need to spend more money?
Depending on where you race it could be the difference between the back (or mid pack) or up front. Not all tracks are that way. Us weekend warriors get left out in the thought process of INEX. Dirt guys really get the raw end of the deal. INEX does not care about you. Pavement is not a lot better if you don't run Charlotte or some other venue where there is a better draw of cars. Kalispell, Montana is a nice track. Good people that run there. All work very hard at the sport. A few have a ton to throw at their car. Most of us are just average Joe. Do remember that this is an offshoot of NASCAR and they do not care. If you can't keep up with rules that usually come out too late in the off season to fix; Then you are just SOL. Way I have seen the rules and management work over the past 8 years. My opinion.

Are some of the "improvements" a good step forward? Yes.... Some. My complaint... Don't wait until after the begining of the season to make a rule.  Major components should be made a year in advance to let folks know what to expect for the following year. I've seen rule changes in the middle of the season (for most of us) that only seem to be made to accomidate the few.  When I ran stcks and mods; I ALWAYS knew what to expect for the following year. Really not that hard to do.

My .02 for what it's worth.

Steve

[Legends57x]

Just wanted to clarify that I was not promoting the change to quick change rear ends for INEX Legends cars.  I am an average Joe racer myself racing on a family budget and  I really don't want to have shell out another $1800 to put into my car either.   Just thought it was an interesting discussion and was pointing out some positives.  Too many times in life we tend to focus only on negatives, kind of like our daily news...LOL.  I do recall being involved in a similar discussion two years ago regarding Wilwood front brake calipers.  I will admit I was one who was totally against adding cost of these brakes on our cars.  However, like everything else, once a few of our fellow racers had them, most others purchased them to keep up as we say.  I saved up some money and purchased them also.   Besides substantial weight savings and improved performance, the new Wilwood brakes were much easier to work (no more retaining spring issues, etc.)   Now with Wilwood rear disc brakes coming in the near future, most will wait until others purchase and then follow the same pattern to purchase themselves.  I do agree with you Steve that INEX has done a poor job recently of either allowing new parts to be added to rulebook or changing rules a few weeks before the season starts.  Sorry, I may be wrong, but it would not surprise me if they would  change rule to allow both quick change and Wilwood rear disc brakes as a package.  It would make perfect sense for them as it would allow them to add more to their margins selling as a whole package rather than separately.  As most all of us know, INEX no longer means INEXpensive.    Just my  two cents... 

[Dirt75]

 I am on my third rear end in 3 years due to wrecks. First two were bent slightly and could not be straightened. One positive to the quick change, you replace just the tube in this situation.