Oil Systems / cooler

[thunder938]

I was wondering what type of oil cooler set up do most people run.  A 2 circuit system with 2 coolers or do you tie them together and run 1 circuit / cooler system?  And what do you think about one or the other set up.


Thanks, Dave

[justfreaky]

This from KevsCorner:

[thunder938]

Ya, I have that.  The thing is that you MUST have the low side psi shimmed up to match the psi of the high psi side ( from the rear of the motor)  The line from the oil pan is only 28 psi and the rear of the motor at the filter is like 65psi.  If the lines are tied and the psi is that far off...well BOOM.  I dont need that now.  I have the 2 tie lines tie to gether now, but due to a question on my new motor if that work was done to the oil pump I may go to the 2 cooler system to be safe.  We have guys in the area that run both ways.

Dave

[elimn8u_43]

On my car I run the 3 pass Setrab cooler with the Hank Scott filter setup and a smaller Setrab cooler on my top end oiler.

Geoff

[fasass47]

Ok bought a used engine from a guy who said it was a good engine. Put it in the car this winter , started it up with the stock oil filter cover on it and just a loop in and out of the oil pan. 80 lbs oil pressure cold , checked compresion and I had 150 after about only 10 minutes of run time so I figured it was an ok engine. Took it out of the car , took the car all apart and put it back together. Installed a small setrab oil cooler from the oil pan with 8an lines , a remoted oil filter adaptor with a line to my filter, then from there to my larger setrab oil cooler and back to the oil filter adaptor. Finished the car up saturday afternoon all but the body, so I rolled it outside and started it up and only had 20lbs oil pressure. Ran it for about 10 minutes shut it off , did alot of thinking, and figured out that the oil lines on the remote oil filter adaptor were wrong , so I changed them to the rite way and started it back up and still only 20 lbs oil pressure. So next I changed the oil filter and still 20lbs oil pressure. So last night I took all the oil lines, coolers, remote oil filter adaptor off the engine. I looped in and out of the bottom of the oil pan w/ 8 an oil line and reinstalled stock yamaha oil filter cover w/ no filter back on and started the engine. 80 lbs oil pressure rite away. So then I hooked up the small setrab oil cooler to the oil pan and started the engine and had 80 lbs oil pressure. Next I removed the stock oil filter cover and installed one the remote oil filter adaptors and ran a 8 an line to  the oil filter ( fram) and came rite back to the in side of the adaptor. Started the engine and only had 20lbs oil pressure. So I disconnected the lines to and from the oil filter and ran lines to and from the larger setrab oil cooler and started the engine and still only had 20 lbs oil pressure. Then I disconnected the oil cooler and just looped out of the oil filter adaptor and rite back in , started the engine and still only 20 lbs oil pressure. Removed the remote oil filter adaptor, re- installed the stock yamaha oil filter cover and the oil pressure went rite back to 80 lbs. What do think ??

[thunder938]

If you motor is stock, or set up to run 2 sep. oil systems you can not tie the line out of the front of the pan and the out from the back of the motor together.  The oil system in these motors has 2 "sides"
1) the low psi side is from the pan at about 25 psi and is made for the cooler that is on the bike. 
2) the high psi side is the side that pulls oil from the pan to the filter then the oil is used in the motor about 65 -70 psi

If you tie this 2 systems together, like a lot do, with out shimming the psi valve in the low side it will cause that low psi to show. this will blow up.  There is nothing wrong with having 2 cooler and 2 sep oil systems, if that what the builder set the motor up for.  I had a sealed motor that broke and it had a tied together system, but my new open motor is setup to have the 2 sep systems.

System 1: ft hole on the  pan to cooler then return to rear hole of pan ( on the side) this would be the low psi side
System 2: Back of motor to filter then cooler then return to rear of motor, high psi side

Dave

[VMS Motorsports]

Couldnt have said it nearly as crisp and clean as that, great explanation Dave

[RickyBobby]

I am going to have to take a look at mine.  I ran mine last year with about 25 PSI when I headed out on the track.  I have no signs of wear at all but I am sure mine is hooked up wrong looking at this thread.

[RickyBobby]

So I have 2 small Setrab oil coolers running together.  What is this shim you are talking about?

[thunder938]

To find the shim you would have to remove the oil pan and see if the psi relief valves have been shimmed. On my new motor my builder shims the high psi side to up the psi, but does not shim the low side. ( again I run 2 coolers and 2 sep systems)


Dave

[nhmcclure]

I just installed a Hank Scott system with remote oil filter and two oil coolers. One oil cooler for the main oiling system and one for the top end oiler. with a 67psi result.  The guy that only gets 20psi  did not shim the low pressure relief valve in the oil pan. If you don't shim it you will be back feeding the low pressure stage of  with the  oil pump with  high pressure side and this WILL destroy the motor!  The motors internal clearances are not designed to run at 20psi. You need to remove the pan and pull the pressure relief valve that is in the pan (NOT the one in the motor) out and Shim it.  The shimming  process is that you first remove the oil pan, then remove the pressure relief valve from the pan. Then remove the  cotter pin from the valve, then you remove the cup that was up against the cotter pin then the spring and finally the lower cup.  You will need to put 0.090" worth of shims in the recess of the bottom cup.(approx 2 #6 washers from the hardware store) Reassemble the whole thing and you will make 60-70 psi which the other pressure relief valve in the motor is set for.  The shimming basically increases the spring pressure of that pressure relief valve causing it to open at a high pressure.

[JGRacing]

I have an open motor, but for those out there with a sealed motor, is the shimming done from the factory?   

[thunder938]

good?, I run a open now and my last motor was a sealed from Joyce.  Most of the sealed builders did shim the valve, but does 600 on a new motor? on a rebuild?  The owner of the motor would have to work with his/her dealer to make sure.  It may be something that is diff. on the base motor to a topend motor.

[RickyBobby]

k, I am very confused.  The diagram on this thread deoesn't seem to match up with the breakaway motor on 600's site.  I think I need to go look at my car but I am at work :-).  The diagram shows blocking off lines but the one on 600 shows it running back to the side of the motor.  I see and in and out from the original oil filter which has the cap for the remote system.  I see and in and out on the side of the motor.  What are the ones that are being referred to in the oil pan?  If theses are not touched with a temote system and coolers why is this where the shim needs to go?  I may have missed something completely

[justfreaky]

RB,
 The diagram I posted is for a single oil cooler and remote oil filter, run directly from where the oil filter normally mounts. I belive I got that diagram from Loosenuts Racing or Little Cars.  Dave (Thunder) has enlightened me as to the better way to do it. Dave explains it pretty well.

Shimming the oil pump valve spring has been an old, and long standing tradition to improve oil pressure. High volume, high pressure, pumps can get expensive.  Shawn (nhmcclure) gives a good explanation as to how best to do this; and save a bunch of money.

Sealed or unsealed engines............. I don't have any answers on that as I am not using an INEX/600 Racing engine in my build. That will be something that will have to be asked of the engine builder.

Hope that claers a little of that up for you.


Steve