Author Topic: Brake Update  (Read 85008 times)

Offline erich17

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 25
Re: Brake Update
« Reply #150 on: June 18, 2013, 01:33:05 pm »
I did not like the feel of the brakes, I know a lot of people have been very happy with the system but I prefer my old system (yes its a 2k old system but I have already paid for it and the car works)


Offline justfreaky

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4512
Re: Brake Update
« Reply #151 on: June 18, 2013, 01:46:09 pm »
Perhaps just a pad issue? Maybe not aggressive enough for you?

Steve
Better to be hated for who you are, Than to be loved for who you are not.


Offline erich17

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 25
Re: Brake Update
« Reply #152 on: June 18, 2013, 02:42:44 pm »
I just had a long convo with Dennis,  I am not saying I am looking at this the correct way and other view this the wrong way but you have a smaller pad surface area with the new brakes and a larger piston area the brakes have always had a problem getting hot.  If you have a smaller surface area and a larger piston you will put more force on the rotor creating heat.  If you change the pad to a more aggressive pad to increase stopping force you will also increase heat.  I would love to make them work but I just don't have the time to commit to them while we are testing several other things on the car.  I can compare my notes from previous years with the old system and I know what he car will do.

Offline racerrad8

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 343
    • Raduechel Performance Motorsports
Re: Brake Update
« Reply #153 on: June 18, 2013, 04:21:22 pm »
I am currently removing both systems I installed from the road race cars I have here.

I have tried several different pads and neither driver likes the feel and do not have any confidence. The smaller pad is getting way too hot, having major fade issues and then boiling the fluid. They have not been able to complete a 30 minute session without loosing the brakes due to fluid boiling.

I have even gone up to the high dollar/high temp brake fluids and this last weekend added cooling ducts to both cars.

I have been working with a major brake pad manufacture and they have nothing else to offer for the package at this point. They are going to have some ceramic discs made to fit between the pad & piston to try and combat the heat transfer which causes the fade/boil.

The pad that came with the calipers cannot even make a full day of road racing before requiring replacement. The more aggressive I have gotten with the pad eliminates the driver fell and it goes to wheel lock to quickly when cold, but then won't stop when hot.

I will be trying them again at a later time, but we cannot afford to loose too many points in the middle of the race season.

This package was definitely not thought out for the road racers...

Randy - RPM
Randy - RPM
randy@rpmracingca.com
2010 INEX/Intercomp Raceteam of the Year.
2009 INEX National and World Champion, Thunder Roadster.

Offline legends13

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 201
    • Northeast Legends
Re: Brake Update
« Reply #154 on: June 20, 2013, 12:22:23 pm »
I find that very interesting. I am running the new system, and I have found my temps to be lower than previous.  I have so far tried the BP-10 and BP-20 pads, and both work well. The only issue I have found is that it takes a few laps to get enough heat in them to get them working well. Of course I am running oval, not road course, but like I said, I have been hard pressed to get them warm enough, quickly. I even resorted to stomping the brakes as much as possible under pace laps to try and build some heat.
Brad Salatino
Northeast Legends - Authorized USLC Dealer


knoxracing

  • Guest
Re: Brake Update
« Reply #155 on: June 20, 2013, 09:43:53 pm »
Brad, I agree. We are using them without issue. I was at USLC all day today and asked several people what they knew. Pad selection seems to be the topic right now. We have put 200 laps on the stock pads and they are unhurt. I know  that Wilwood, Cobalt and others have pads. I believe any problem would be solved by releasing the rear system for next year. Then we would have a racing brake system. Drum brakes- REALLY!


Offline racerrad8

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 343
    • Raduechel Performance Motorsports
Re: Brake Update
« Reply #156 on: June 20, 2013, 10:07:12 pm »
Well, that must be the difference in circle and road racing.

Trying to stop this car from 130mph, 5th gear running a 2:50/2:92 at terminal velocity and having to slow down to a 3rd gear corner to make the corner obviously generates much more heat that going around an oval.

In fact this weekend the Legends & Roadsters will be running within less than 10 seconds of the cup cars at Sonoma. So we have a $15,000.00 Legend running close to the same speed as the cup boys.

I am just passing along my experiences after two full weekends of running the system.

I am sure you guys are hearing nothing but praise from the proprietary product supplier, car manufacture, sanctioning body and mother ship, they surely are not going to have any problems to report.

Randy - RPM
Randy - RPM
randy@rpmracingca.com
2010 INEX/Intercomp Raceteam of the Year.
2009 INEX National and World Champion, Thunder Roadster.

knoxracing

  • Guest
Re: Brake Update
« Reply #157 on: June 21, 2013, 06:59:16 am »
LOL Randy. The first part was very good and I agree the road race must be extremely different.As far as your rant about the mother ship, I spent the entire day there and for the most part the brakes have went well. Biggest problem is matching the right pad with the right application. They are well aware some racers have had isssues. The problem is there are so many variables in brake systems  car to car. Most guys have no idea how to maintain the rear brakes, with the new system you need more rear. This is a problem and is magnified with the new fronts. I  have heard some guys feel they  don't stop the car and others say they are too touchy. Your situation is certainly different than most because of your road coursing.


Offline justfreaky

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4512
Re: Brake Update
« Reply #158 on: June 21, 2013, 07:05:50 am »
Dennis,

I thought that INEX was not going to upgrade the rear brakes any time soon for the Legends Cars.
I do agree that a 4 wheel disc brake set up would be a benefit. Drums are pretty outdated in most forms of racing.

Steve
Better to be hated for who you are, Than to be loved for who you are not.

knoxracing

  • Guest
Re: Brake Update
« Reply #159 on: June 22, 2013, 10:41:40 am »
First, Randy I read my post again and maybe saying you went on a rant was not the best phrase.  I just think USLC has made the right choice and it will work out.

USLC has made no decision as to when the rear upgrade will come. I DO NOT WANT TO START THE WHOLE "now we have to spend more money debate". I think it is what is needed to finish this brake system properly. While I was as USLC this week we did talk about the rear and the possibility of releasing them sooner than later. The front were the topic we really focused on, I think pad selection is the key. I have some pads we will test this next weekend that will hopefully work on a short track. The stock pads worked very well on a 3/8 track.


Offline racerrad8

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 343
    • Raduechel Performance Motorsports
Re: Brake Update
« Reply #160 on: June 22, 2013, 12:44:50 pm »
First, Randy I read my post again and maybe saying you went on a rant was not the best phrase....

Well, I guess we are on the other coast and information flow stops at the Mississippi river. It is amazing to my local dealers when I ask a question based on information you post here and they do not know anything about it.

It is unfortunate that they are not able to travel across the country on a regular basis, but with that said, I can tell you not a single member of the USLCI management staff has ever been out here to California to check on what their "dealers" are doing.

Then add on the fact that we have the largest road racing program in the world here in Nor-Cal and we still have zero communication or input to how this are done.

So, we feel like red headed step children way over here on the left coast.

I made a decisions a long time ago based on the business practices I saw with prior California Legends dealers of never becoming one when it was asked of me.

And finally, sure they might be able to make the package work on the ovals, but I am not sure if I can get them to work road racing. I have already spent close to $700.00 in brake pads, but due to the extreme uses of the brake during road racing the pad surface area & caliper is not big enough to complete a race without wearing out, burning up, or boiling the fluid.

Randy - RPM
Randy - RPM
randy@rpmracingca.com
2010 INEX/Intercomp Raceteam of the Year.
2009 INEX National and World Champion, Thunder Roadster.

Offline justfreaky

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4512
Re: Brake Update
« Reply #161 on: June 22, 2013, 06:50:41 pm »
Everyone has their opinion on the Wilwood calipers, pads, etc... The question was asked about what people thought about the calipers and pads. Let it go at that. Opinions are like noses; Eveyone has one.

My intent on asking Dennis about the rear braking system was not to start any kind of debate. Last I had seen posted; Rear brakes were not going to be part of the braking deal at this point.

Steve
Better to be hated for who you are, Than to be loved for who you are not.

Offline VMS Motorsports

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3524
    • VMSmotorsports.com
Re: Brake Update
« Reply #162 on: June 24, 2013, 09:18:49 pm »
Steve, when a question is asked about what someone thought about a particular part or experience with it, the only thing that people can give is their opinions...so there is going to be a difference in what people think
JIM BUCHER
VMS Motorsports
Worldwide Legends Parts Supplier
(262)255-7100
http://www.vmsmotorsports.com/